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Fj40 Profile Photo
Kayak Fishing in Louisiana

Need advice for new kayak purchase

I'm relatively new to the area (Lafayette) and plan to take up inshore kayak/fly fishing. I moved here from northwest Montana where I fished rivers from rafts, drift boats, and inflatable pontoons. I also have a fair amount of white water kayak experience.

All of that said... I've narrowed my selection of kayaks down to two:
1) Jackson Cuda 14
2)Hobie pro Angler 14

I like the Hobie, because it frees up the hands... but does the drive system work as well as advertized? What happens in shallow water? How slow is it compared to the Cuda? What are the cons to the Hobie propulsion system? Any problems with the Cuda?

Any advice would be appreciated! I've researched both boats extensively... Now I'd like to hear from the folks who paddle them (or peddle).

Thank You!
January 30, 2013 at 5:40pm
28 Comments
Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted January 30, 2013 at 8:02pm
Yaks

First let me state that Im on the Hobie fishing team so I'm somewhat biased. However, I also have extensive kayak fishing experience with a lot of brand types.



I own several Hobies and for me it's the only way to go for hands free fishing. The PA 14 is a big boat (even Hobie really doesn't consider it a kayak) It is however a fishing machine. (Do you know Hobie also makes a PA 12?)



The Mirage drive propulsion is amazing. You will be able to pedal all day with no fatigue and pedaling in wind/current is much better than paddling in my opinion. Hands free is a definite plus. The drive systems limits you from extremely shallow water, but I've never really found that to be an issue. Hobies are well laid out and well made.



The Jacksons are also very popular paddle models in our area. Comfortable seat and also well laid out features designed by fishermen. Tracks well with good speed. If you are truly comparing the PA14 and the Jackson, the Jackson will be much lighter and easier to transport.



I will answer any specific questions you have. My best advice is to actually demo any models you are considering. Most dealers are getting ready for 'demo days' where you can actually go try out many different yaks.



cholmes@att.net

100FFC Headquarters Profile Photo
Posted January 30, 2013 at 9:05pm
IMO

The PA14 and PA 12 are cocktail barges - they are the Sea-Rays of the kayak fishing world. But they are by no means Bayliners either!



I would recommend you take a look and a test drive of the Hobie Outback. It is the SUV of kayaks.



Sea ya out there on the water,

Catch

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mcsccboys Profile Photo
Posted January 31, 2013 at 7:27am
Jackson Cuda 14

Chris is exactly right. Your legs are stronger than your arms so as far as covering distance, trolling, or being hands free the Hobie wins. Far superior for fishing in deeper water. However the jackson is great for shallow water marsh fishing 1-2 feet b/c it's lighter and more agile than the PA in my opinion. For me personally I like the Cuda b/c it's smaller, lighter, easier to launch on the side of the road, and easier to paddle in skinny water with an actual paddle or push pole. I do get jealous of the hobies when a storm is brewing or I want to cover some distance to get to a remote marsh. I do like the primitive aspect of using a hand paddle though. To each his own.

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Nemo00 Profile Photo
Posted January 31, 2013 at 9:56pm
pa 14

i have a 2012 pa 14 for sale for $2000

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jmoreauusmc Profile Photo
Posted February 02, 2013 at 11:30am
Just remember, your in LA

Hobie's are great, but if you see yourself getting into some freshwater fishing around cypress stumps, you might be asking for trouble with those paddles sticking out the bottom of your yak. Just something to keep in mind. It's what kept me from getting a hobie. I got a commander wilderness 140 instead and I love it.

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randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted February 03, 2013 at 7:15pm
Feel Free Moken 14 Angler Kayak

Look this up: Feel Free Moken 14 Angler Kayak



I like a Kayak that sits good all day and is fast to paddle so I can go further faster. As far as fishing kayaks, you can fish from any kayak that feels good. Don't get stuck on the 'fishing kayak' per say. My best kayak purchased and fished from was a Jackson ibis.

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BC1990 Profile Photo
Posted March 29, 2013 at 9:36am
Hobie

I'm an owner of a Hobie Outback 12. I have no problems in shallow water. If its real shallow you can do half strokes with the propulsion to avoid damaging fins. I'm currently trying to sell mine to get a Pro Angler. Great kayak.

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randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted March 29, 2013 at 9:52am
The hobie mirage drive pros vs cons

Last summer I purchased the Hobie outfitter with mirage drive for my wife and daughter. They enjoyed it in open water as paddling and steering was quite easy. However, there was about 4 occasion s they became stuck and broke the fins on the mirage drives. Two of those times while paddling at bayou saint john they hit unseen stumps and the other time while at port fourchon unseen oyster beds. I ended up towing them at port fourchon as even the rudder was not usable in 6' of water. For our needs it just didn't work.

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Stick-em Profile Photo
Posted March 30, 2013 at 8:38pm
Pro Angler 14

I just purchased a Hobie Pro Angler 14 and I love it. I've only fished out of it a few times, but I am impressed. The mirage drive is much more user friendly than I expected, and by learning to take advantage of the wind or current available, just a small adjustment of the rudder will keep you on course while fishing literally hands free. It's much morte stable than I expected, and standing to fish is easily accomplished without fear of taking a swim. I can understand what the others have posted about shallow water and the mirage drive, but with just a few precautions, I think most problems can be avoided. I've fished the stumps and cypress knees around Manchac, and when I know I'm going into shallows I retract the rudder and drive fins, and have yet to hang up. Sure, it's something else to worry about, but the advantages more than out weigh the possible issues in my opinion. I'll be fishing bass and bluegill the most, and I don't regret the purchase. Thanks to Chris Holmes for taking the time at the Sportsman Show to answer all my questions and address my concerns about which boat would serve me best! Your recommendation was on the money.

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randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 9:30am
A few more purchase thoughts:

The sport of Kayaking while fishing or touring has always been enjoyed using a paddle. We have seen over the years many companies trying to change our love of paddling with many substitutes from peddling to trolling motors. Kayaking is the love of paddling and the outdoors we do it in! For me and millions of others we shall paddle.......

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Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 11:37am
I prefer pedaling!

I prefer having a rod in my hand rather than a paddle.



My actual fishing time is increased tremendously by pedaling instead of paddling.



Check the stats of any major kayak fishing tournament. You will see that Hobie almost always represents 50% or more of all other kayak brands combined. 'Nuff said!



Like fish, not all fishermen will come to a Hobie,-- but they all want to!

randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 12:42pm
Hobie Unplugged

On a recent trip to Florida I ran into the Ft. Lauderdale Yak Fishing Club and as always we all talked and told tales of how great our kayaks were. The Club though takes it to the greater step from just tales of greatness and lay down facts. The link below was and is their take on the mirage drive:



Deconstruction of the White Bread Marketing Kahuna:

Is it all just a mirage?



http://ftlauderdaleyakfishingclub.org/hobieunplugged.html

• View Reports by randywhorton
Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 3:13pm
Personal opinions

I base my comments on years of real-world kayak fishing experience fishing from the Louisiana marsh to several oceans around the world. From bass, trout and reds to marlin, tuna and roosters and almost anything in between. No tests, no studies, no fancy terms, no hype, no marketing, no sales pitches. Actual fishing.



My absolute advice is always to try many brands and models and see what works best for you. I don't care what anyone else chooses to fish, it's their decision and their right.



For me, I have proven time and time again that I get more fishing time, more fish handling ability and much longer range than if I were paddling.



To each his own.

That guy in the white boots Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 7:49pm
yak

I'm waiting on the Factory to finish my new Ron Chapman in the 'King' size with spudholes behind the back of the seat. 2 cypress Chapman pirogue paddles and a 10 foot stiffy push pole. Should be done for 'Paddle Bayou Lafourche.' A Lou-si-ana bred kayak. Won't be able to go open water, but I can drag it through the swamp for hunting season. It has a carrying capacity of 600 lbs. That's almost as much as a 15 foot canoe. All at 70 lbs. It's like buying a $4000 kevlar canoe for $600. A little more culture.

Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted March 31, 2013 at 7:58pm
Chapman

Should be a great boat Boots. I spent many years catching trout and reds in my Chapman and still do occasionally after a duck hunt.



Enjoy!

viciousfishes Profile Photo
Posted April 01, 2013 at 10:18am
Says it all

This video says it all. What a Hobie is all about.

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randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 8:00am
but does the drive system work as well as advertized?

Hobie Unplugged



Deconstruction of the White Bread Marketing Kahuna:

Is it all just a mirage?



Is there a big Kahuna of mechanized watercraft? You bet there is and we all know of whom I speak - Hobie - synonymous with California Cool and the ubiquitous Hobie Cat. Honestly they deserve a free plug...

'Hobie Cat Company is the leading manufacturer of catamarans, sailboats, sit-on-top kayaks, fishing kayaks and float cats. Featuring the pedal-driven Hobie Mirage Kayaks, plus a full line of Hobie parts and accessories.'

Nice. Hobie and water go together like ham and cheese, but occasionally like bull and shit. So much for the free plug, lol. Now believe it or not I really do like Hobie. Mostly because of their free wheeling creativity and courage to think out-of-the-box. I think their Mirage Drive, aka Penguin Propellers, was and is a tour de force, as is their Twist n' Stow rudder. Great ideas and works-in-progress from a great company.



The Hobie franchise is a good one and it has been nurtured over years by a top flight marketing effort. As a result the Hobie paddle craft have developed a near cultlike following of chanting true believers - the Hobieholics. Good for them. But the rest of us - the majority of paddlers - retain open minds and suspect that when one encounters overly fervid and condescending superiority - either from the Hobieholics or their big Kahuna - that perhaps something is amiss.



The most convincing evidence of such is typically a manufacturer who makes a series of impressive claims - one after another - but without a shred of evidence. Compare to the many designers and manufacturers who proudly publish detailed specifications and performance data. Length, beam, and weight for starters - and much more - like waterline length (LWL), beam waterline (BWL), wetted surface area, draft, target displacement, sinkage, enclosed volume, lines (body plan), prismatic coefficient and, well, you get the idea.



They often also include performance data derived from KAPER revealing drag/speed predictions. Pick up any issue of Sea Kayaker and check out the two or three monthly reviews where such data is commonly published. Such openness leads to confidence. Lack of openness has exactly the opposite effect.



So let's deconstruct Hobie's Mirage Drive page, line by line:



Hobie begins with the usual marketing list of key features. My comment in italics...



* Revolutionary new propulsion system (agreed)

* Pedal driven (true)

* Adjustable mechanism accommodates a wide size range of pedalers (true)

* Durable construction of injection molded plastics, anodized aluminum, stainless steel fittings (debatable)

* Self-cleaning mechanism (resists wear from sand and other particles) (unverifiable)

* Easily removable for transport and storage (true)

So far so good. Fair game, good marketing - well done and effective. Hobie then provides a basic explanation of how the drive works.



'See how the MirageDrive 'sails' flex and take the shape of a propeller blade then reverse their shape on the opposite stroke. This sweeping action (versus a complete revolution as with a standard propeller) allows the MirageDrive to utilize large, powerful blades in a shallower configuration. You can also use very short strokes, with the blades against the hull, to propel the boat through shallow water.'

'The blades can be 'tucked up' against the hull for beach landings.'



'The MirageDrive is easily and quickly installed or removed, is lightweight, extremely durable, and fully adjustable to fit many sizes of pedalers.'



Fair game. Informative and descriptive, factual and effectively shows the versatility of the system. Good video included. The word 'powerful', without data, is introduced. The claim of 'durable' is repeated (certainly debatable given the record of breakdowns and continuing redesign). Hobie then lists 'benefits' of the Mirage drive...



'Benefits of the Hobie MirageDrive

The MirageDrive is simple and easy to use. Your feet rest naturally on the pedals and you pedal effortlessly similar to a bicycle. The larger muscles in our legs produce more powerful propulsion versus arms using a paddle. In addition, correct paddle usage requires training and practice. You also stay drier as pedaling eliminates drips that you get from using a paddle. The MirageDrive is quiet and creates no splash. The Hobie MirageDrive leaves your hands free for fishing, photography or holding a drink.'



Now things begin to get interesting. This is the essence of the Hobie pitch - 'simple and easy to use', 'similar to a bicycle' and using 'our legs' for 'more powerful propulsion'. Great! Hobie knows that most beginners are intimidated by kayaks and especially the notion of having to learn what seems a difficult skill - paddling.



Nope, no 'training and practice'. Hey 'you also stay drier' - wear a tuxedo and pedal to your wedding - you'll arrive dry, crisp and clean. They claim the drive is 'quiet' and creates no nasty 'splash'. A real limo with blacked out windows. Heck, it's even 'hands free' for fishing, holding or drink or signing thank you notes for your wedding gifts.



Still, fair game. We're still in the allowable and expected area of standard marketing hype. Of course kayaking is a watersport so the claims of staying drier are silly at best. There is certainly a contradiction between 'pedaling effortlessly' and using our legs for 'powerful propulsion'. Power = force = effort. No effort, no power. And what's 'quiet' in marketing or to the gullible neophyte is not at all quiet for the flats fisherman. Reports are sufficient and convincing that the Mirage drive will indeed spook fish on the flats.



But now let's get to the meat, er white bread. Now Hobie 'gets technical'. At last!



'Let's get technical...

Performance

The Hobie MirageDrive propels the boat easily and smoothly, and reaches hull speed with minimal effort. It also generates significant static thrust. In a 'tug-of-war' between a single Hobie Mirage and a tandem paddled kayak, the Hobie Mirage won hands-down (pun intended). Check out the video below!'



I love this one!



Marketing at its absolute best, er worst. Hobie tries to back this one up with a video pitting designer Greg Ketterman pedaling a Hobie single in a 'tug of war' against no less than world champs Greg Barton and Oscar Chalupsky of Epic (paddling a double)! Is this impressive or what! Simply brilliant.



Hobie tosses in their first technical term - 'static thrust' (without quantifying it). How much thrust? We'll never know, the big Kahuna ain't tellin.



The marketing claim is simple and powerful - if a (relative) weakling designer can prevail over two world championship paddlers, this Mirage drive must be one amazing device - powerful and effective. The neophyte now believes he's gonna fly over the water, leaving any ordinary paddler in the spray. And can do so 'effortlessly' with his powerful leg muscles!



This demo is a ripoff.



Static thrust is simply that - thrust from a standstill. In a tug of war what you really have is a series of consecutive 'strokes' each developing a certain level of thrust, or force. With the Mirage drive there is very little pause between what amounts to very short strokes. Compare to the paddler(s) whose strokes are necessarily longer, and with a greater pause between strokes.



This 'test' is intentionally set up in such a way as to favor the Mirage. It's an illusion of which Harry Houdini would be proud. This 'test/demo' denies the paddler(s) the opportunity to develop headway and momentum (glide) and takes advantage of the longer pause/stroke of paddling. It simply takes advantage of the longer pauses between paddling strokes - when the Mirage is pulling against...



Nothing.



Heck, if your opponent stops pulling, you can beat anybody. The Mirage has only a momentary advantage, but prevails because the opposing paddler(s) never get to move. Set this up as a drag race and the paddler(s) would take a quick lead after only a few strokes. Irrelvent to real world kayaking, misleading at best and really quite meaningless.



But would sure make a good bar bet.



Let's face it. None of us buy kayaks to tow anything much, and we certainly don't buy them to engage in tug of wars. Your three hundred pound buddy might well beat you in a tug of war, but not in the hundred yard dash. Meaningless.



A fairer comparison would be to one of the better prop driven HPB watercraft (Human Powered Boats). These boys are serious and some of them compete with and against Hobies. Their competitions are serious and well documented. Here's some typical results - out of 12 HPB's, most prop driven, one paddler and Hobie Mirage Tandem with two pedalers:



1. The Hobie placed 7th in the 100 meter sprint.

2. The Hobie was 5th in the slalom.

3. The Hobie finished 8th in the drag race.

4. The Hobie was 5th in the 2K criterium, and

5. The Hobie did not place in static thrust.

In a fair contest the Hobie - with two pedalers, yet - was eighth against singles in competition. In overall points the Hobie Mirage Tandem was 7th. Regarding static thrust, the leading prop craft produced 72 lb. Hobie won't reveal theirs. More 'technical' claims by Hobie:



'Efficiency

Even we were surprised at the efficiency of the MirageDrive. In a test to compare the efficiency of the MirageDrive, we measured the heart rates of several kayakers at varying speeds in several paddled kayak models. In every case, the heart rate-or effort expended to maintain a particular speed-was three to ten percent less for pedaling versus paddling. Translation? The MirageDrive converts the effort of the human body into forward thrust more efficiently than a paddle!'



Now it's gettin deep and I don't mean sophisticated. Hobie makes an interesting claim, namely that the heart rate to maintain a particular speed is alleged to be 'three to ten percent less' for a Hobie when compared to 'several kayakers' at 'varying speeds' in 'several kayak models'.



No description of the methodology, or the kayakers or of their experience and paddling skills. What speeds? How measured? What kayak models? What were the heart rates? Condition of kayakers? Without any reference points, or any real description this amounts to nothing but empty claims. White bread with no meat.



Now that we are in the 'technical' section - the part that purports to back up the initial (and expected) marketing claims - we are owed real data and convincing explanations. It is presumptuous and condescending to back up a marketing claim with - just another unsubstantiated claim. Hobie says they 'were surprised at the efficiency of the Mirage drive'. The real surprise is that they just won't tell us how efficient it really is.



But the HPB boys will - and they provide the data. At 3.5 mph the Mirage drive was only 22% efficient (heart rate 107). The drive doesn't really get efficient until it reaches 5.3 mph at 46% (heart rate 132). Now when you realize that many prop driven HPB's approach efficiencies are closer to 70-80% efficient, it's no wonder that in fair, head to flipper competitions the Hobie sucks hind teat.



Not fair game. It gets worse when Hobie offers this obscure explanation of this 'surprising efficiency'.



'Allow us to explain.

The MirageDrive creates less turbulence in water. This becomes apparent when you compare the wake of a Hobie Mirage to the wake of a paddled kayak. With each stroke of the paddle, you'll see two vortices, or whirlpools, on the surface of the water. These vortices are connected underwater, and there is considerable energy in these rotating masses of water. There are vortices in the wake of the MirageDrive, but since the MirageDrive acts on a much larger volume of water, they are much smaller and therefore contain less energy. To create forward thrust on the water, a boat must move water backward. It can either move a little water quickly, or a lot of water slowly. The key to efficiency is to move a lot of water slowly with the least amount of turbulence. The volume of water that the MirageDrive acts upon is approximately proportionate to the area that the fins sweep in one cycle, or about 226 square inches. The volume of water that a paddle acts upon depends on the type of stroke. A basic stroke would act upon a volume of water proportionate to the area of the paddle, or about 90 square inches. This is just a fraction of the area 'swept out' by the MirageDrive, which explains the difference in efficiency.'



Whew! Now let me try to explain their explanation...



In a VERY roundabout way Hobie (simplistically) attempts to connect the 'whirlpools' you see behind a paddle with 'turbulence' and 'less energy' moving the kayak. They claim the Mirage whirlpools are smaller and that less energy is lost. Still with me? They build on this 'logic' with the idea that to move a kayak forward, you must 'move water backward' and further, that the idea is to 'move a lot of water slowly with the least amount of turbulence'. They then claim their drive 'moves' 226 sq in of water slowly, compared to a paddle which they claim moves only 90 sq in of water more quickly and with more turbulence.



Wow! More than twice as much water 'moved' and with less turbulence! Based on this outrageous explanation a Mirage drive oughta produce, what, maybe three times as much thrust as a paddle? Hardly.



This is just plain bull. Completely and utter cowpies.



First of all Hobie never, ever quantifies the amount of 'forward thrust' they claim, for either their drive or the paddle in question. That alone disqualifies this approach. Further the notion that to move a kayak forward you must 'move water backward' is simply naive and just not true.



It's not at all about how much water you 'move'; it's about the efficiency (or slippage) of the flipper or paddle. Speaking simplistically if the flipper is 22% efficient, only 49 of the 226 sq in claimed by Hobie are in play. Compare to say a good wing paddle, properly used, that develops 'lift' and actually moves forward (yes, forward) during the stroke, does not 'slip' at all, and allows much more force to be converted into forward thrust. Based on Hobie's faulty analogy all 90 sq in, 100%, would be in play to 'move water'.



In this analysis the wing paddle creates double the Mirage thrust. Who's right? However factual, without real data this alternative analysis too is just a claim.



Hobie's explanation is bizarre, unreproduceable, without any documentation, completely unreliable and unconvincing. No meat. And it gets (much) worse. Despite the fact that they have no real prop driven competition, a seemingly paranoid and defensive Hobie now attacks propellor driven craft with a vengence - with claim after unsubstantiated claim. Let's take em one at a time:



'Why not use a propeller?

Human-powered propeller drives are typically smaller and therefore less efficient. We compared the performance of the MirageDrive to a propeller drive, and found the MirageDrive to be faster and more efficient.'



No meat, just white bread claims. No data whatsoever. How small? How much less efficient? What comparison? How much faster? How much more efficient? With Mirage cruising efficiencies in the 20% range, and even average sized blades in the 70% range I'm finding this claim pretty hard to swallow.



'Studies on tuna and penguins show that oscillating foils such as the MirageDrive are more efficient than propellers. Oscillating foils can make use of vortices that are naturally shed from anything going through the water to offset the vortices that would normally be generated by fins. This equates to less turbulence in the water. '

Good grief!



Now we're getting ridiculous. I feel silly even addressing this one. Now you just might convince me - citing the studies of course - that live tuna and penquins are more efficient than props. But Hobie takes a huge and ridiculous leap - implying their amazing mechanical drive is indistinguishable from the fins of tuna or penguins! Please tell me you're not that stupid. Next thing you know the Hobies will be mating with em. Puuuuulease! How ridiculous.



Fact: in studies comparing drives and props (not penguins and props) the only published tests I've seen completely contradict this absurd correlation. Real world: Mirage efficiency = 22-46%, prop = 70-80%. Fair racing competition bears this out.



'The MirageDrive fins 'feather' into the flow when not pedaling and create very little drag; a propeller creates significant drag when it is not spinning. '

A forced and selective example. Props can be designed to feather or freewheel if desired. Heck they can even be made to turn in reverse (try that with your flippers). And some of you may be familiar with 'folding props' that fold back and become streamlined when not being spun. A perfect example of misdirection. Hobie cleverly states a propellor creates 'significant' drag when not spinning - thus implying that all props will stop spinning when you stop pedaling. Not true. Some do, some don't. And 'significant' is never quantified. White bread.



' The back-and-forth motion of the pedals provides a long, smooth stroke. Pedals that go in circles on a boat have a much different feel than pedals on a bike. On a boat, there are portions of a circular motion that are more difficult, so the cycle is not smooth. '

Another selective and misleading example. Many of the prop driven HPBs use a back and forth motion similar to the Hobie drive; most claim that a circular motion is more efficient. Hobie's claim that 'there are portions of a circular motion that are more difficult' so the 'cycle is not smooth' would be widely contradicted by most cyclists and HPB builders. Hobie fails to document their claims in any convincing way. White bread.



' The back-and-forth motion allows the pedals to be positioned much lower in the cockpit. '

See above. Let me say it again. Many HPB prop driven craft also use a similar back-and-forth motion, and can be so designed if height is all that important. Is it? Not documented. Hobie wants you to believe that all prop driven craft use circular and higher positioning, and further that this is a clear disadvantage. The former is false and there is no evidence for the latter beyond Hobie simply sez so. White bread.



' The MirageDrive allows any length of stroke desired, and performs well with both short and long strokes. '

Oh boy, and here we go yet again. See above. The Hobie motion and variable stroke can and is used by many prop craft. Other HPB designers claim this system is inefficient, choppy and uncomfortable. Performs well? How well? How do short and long strokes compare in terms of thrust? No meat, just white bread.



' The pedals easily adjust to accommodate different size pedalers. '

Ho hum, see above. Hobie is making the same point repeatedly with the hope that you will flipflop away with the hopefully indelible but false notions that (a) all prop drives use circular cranks and (b) that this is somehow a disadvantage. Apparently if Hobie sez it enuf, why it must be true. Let's not forget how different sized cyclists adapt - they just move the seat! How hard is that? Gimme a break. A non-issue, non-advantage and unrelated to props per se. White bread.



' The oscillating motion allows the use of a simple chain and cable system that is unaffected by sand and dirt, without the use of complicated seals. '

Another forced example. Hobie wants you to believe that all prop drives require 'complicated seals'. Just not so. Seals sometimes are used but they are hardly 'complicated' and are both reliable and effective. A non-issue and non-advantage. Simple and unaffected by sand and dirt? I won't bore you with the drive's reputation for breakdown, and need for repairs, adjustments and upgrades. No proof, just more white bread claims.



'The fins shed seaweed because they do not make a full rotation. '

An advantage? Maybe. Hobie wants you to believe that weeds are a problem, that all props are unprotected, and further that their drive always 'sheds seaweed'. Always? Really? Even Hobie doesn't believe this - check their own maintenance page:



'To keep your Mirage Drive in top condition, it is always good to take care of it after each use. Rinse the mechanism after each use to remove sand, seaweed, saltwater and any other water particles. Cable tension should be checked periodically or when it doesn't seem to be performing properly.'

C'mon guys, does it 'shed seaweed' or does it not? Unaffected by sand? A simple google reveals plenty of users havin problems with both. Truth: No drive, prop or rudder is immune to seaweed or sand. The anal retentive can mount simple, inexpensive and relatively effective weedguards - surfskis routinely use em to protect their full time rudders. And are weeds really a problem? And how bout Hobie's Twist n Stow rudder - does it shed weeds too? Or simply twist and stow em? Bottom line: just another unsubstantiated and silly marketing claim.



' The MirageDrive fins fold up next to the hull for beaching and in shallow water by simply putting one foot forward. '

Finally a possibly advantage, fairly stated. But this is not a criticism of props per se. And last...



' We are very honored that Popular Science Magazine selected the Mirage as one of the years best new inventions in 1998.'

So what? Three years later (in 2001) Popular Science also recognized the water cycles, 'Watercycling Into the Record Books', subtitled 'Breaking speed records with the hottest cyles on the water'. This article praised a prop craft that set a record of 104.6 miles in 24 hours, and another that crossed the Atlantic AND the Pacific (!).



Ya really wanna know what kind of craft dominate in extreme long distance races? Paddle powered. What happened to the durable, powerful, tug-o-war champs? Flippin and floppin up the rear.



Spare me.







Bottom Line:



I love interesting and creative design and accordingly I really do like and admire Hobie. Their Mirage drive and Twist n Stow rudder deserve our kudos. What I don't like is the big Kahuna and Hobieholic lionization of products that are neither more nor less than works-in-progress. As such both have checkered records in terms of breakdown and reliability.



There comes a time when a work needs to be complete, reliable and effective. That time has passed.



To me Hobie/Hobieholics come across as superior and condescending - overly sensitive, often defensive and highly critical of legitimate and valuable debate. Hobie suffers from claimitis and white bread syndrome. It's fine to make claims - we, and most manufacturers do.



Say what you will. But be prepared to back it up with real and accessible data and meaningful tests. We need meat with our Wonderbread.



If I were Hobie, and my claims were really true, I'll tell ya what I'd do. I'd enter every short and long distance race I could, especially against other HPB and prop driven watercraft. I'd prove just how fast my Wonderdrive is. I'd be sure to enter extreme long distance endurance events to finish first against 'ordinary' watercraft, and to prove just how durable my flappin flippers were. I'd devise fair tests and honest, meaningful comparisons.



Yup, and I'd shout out the results, make legitimate claims, back em up and publish the data - every single shred of it. Has Hobie done this? Nope. And where Hobie's have competed the results were less than convincing.



Pass the salami...

• View Reports by randywhorton
viciousfishes Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 9:13am
wow

Sure your name isn't Lee Zurik? lol

• View Reports by viciousfishes
Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 9:37am
Love reading fiction!

Consider the source(s)!



This info comes from ONE guy that has a history of being kicked off of another forum (Kayak Fishing Stuff)



He was going to show them, so he started his own.



I've read much of the guy's stuff and he's quite simply-a lunatic.



His forum is soooooo popular that it has 31 categories. TWO of then have a handful of posts from 2013 and ONE from 2012. The rest have varying levels of ''recent'' activity dating back to 2007! Pretty up-to-the-minute information.



Do your homework before purchasing any kayak, but make sure to rely on accurate--REAL WORLD information, not a diatribe by someone who has an axe to grind.



http://www.ftlauderdaleyakfishingclub.org/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

viciousfishes Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 9:49am
April 20th

I'll see you April 20th Chris.

Massey Outfitters Demo Days.

• View Reports by viciousfishes
Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 9:56am
Kayak Article

The April 2013 edition of Louisiana Sportsman (also Mississippi, North Carolina and South Carolina)has an article about what to look for when buying a kayak.



We reviewed 20 different models from nine different manufacturers. Both pedal and paddle models are covered. Check it out.

Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 10:03am
See ya there.

Massey's Kayak Demo Day



For those wishing to try out a wide variety of kayaks, Massey's Professional Outfitters will have a ''demo' day on Saturday April 20, 2013 at Bayou St. John in New Orleans. 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.



They will be set up across the Bayou from Cabrini High School. They will have many 'yaks that you can get in and try out for yourself. There's no charge, you just have to sign a waiver.



Hope to see you there.

Stick-em Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 10:22am
Really

I tried to read that whole comment, I just couldnt make myself finish it! You either have way too much time on your hands or a real gripe with Hobie, or both! Paddle, pedal, who cares!? The important thing is to purchase what YOU want, and just get out there and enjoy the outdoors. Before you even attempt to digest all those facts and figures, get out and test whats on the market. I just purchased a kayak a few weeks ago, and found no lack of dealers or other kayak owners willing to let me try what they sell or own. Try a pedal boat, try a paddle boat, you will know right off whats best for you, both have advantages and disadvantages. It aint rocket science!

• View Reports by Stick-em
randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 10:52am
Gone Fishing

Randy Horton

Gone Fishing

I agree with Chris

'Do your homework before purchasing any kayak, but make sure to rely on accurate--REAL WORLD information, not a diatribe by someone who has an axe to grind.'





The most accurate REAL WORLD way to choose the right kayak is simply find a local outfitter who rents Kayaks and take a day rental in ones your interested in. A few dollars spent on rentals is better than hundreds spent on a kayak you may end up not liking.

• View Reports by randywhorton
viciousfishes Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 11:02am
HA

One thing for sure, with all the information on this post, I am very glad this post wasn't about toilet tissue!

• View Reports by viciousfishes
tigerdave1 Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 6:01pm
Hmmmmm....

Randy Randy Randy.......... Glad to see you have time to write a book and post 'facts' that support your opinion.....but why not answer a question when it is asked directly to you? We all fell for your sob story and felt bad for you when we watched the news and it brought a tear to everyone's eye to hear how the 'man' took advantage of you......NOT! You sir have ZERO credibility! You ever heard the one about the boy that cried wolf????? What kayak are you pushing today????

• View Reports by tigerdave1
randywhorton Profile Photo
Posted April 03, 2013 at 8:35pm
hey tiger dave

I am simply a consumer who expects products to be as advertised. When they are I praise them, when they are not I share that. Direct question welcome any time. Please use email or phone when it is not topic related to the report/forum as I don't wish to ruin a report with unrelated items. I am currently pushing KC Kayaks, but not in the forum...

• View Reports by randywhorton
viciousfishes Profile Photo
Posted April 04, 2013 at 4:49am
Fj40

I bet you didn't think asking for advice would get so out of hand. lol

• View Reports by viciousfishes

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