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Lamplighter Profile Photo
General in Louisiana

Conceal Carry No Permit Now ???

Am I hearing this correctly ?? If the 2nd Amendment thing passes, we can carry concealed without a permit ????
November 06, 2012 at 9:55pm
42 Comments
Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 06, 2012 at 11:49pm
nope

Negative you will still have obey the unconstitutional law that is the concealed carry permits.

jasrrt Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 4:59am
Sorry Mike, I think you may be wrong about this one.

The new amendendment to the Louisiana constitution abolishes the old wording mandating permits to conceal a weapon. See for yourself as it is written: http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=778396

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TRIGGERHAPPY Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 9:08am
Permit gone!!

According to the liberal rage Times-Picayunne, you are correct. The wording on Amendment 2 (not the wording on the ballot) eliminates the need to aquire a concealed permit to carry a concealed weapon. Here's the link, but would like to have a more reliable source to validate this.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/11/louisiana_voters_approve_const.html

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unclejhim Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 10:51am
nothing ghanged

Just spoke to a very rude female at State Police Hdqtrs. about this. Quote, ' our Sargent told us this moring nothing has changed, you still nedeed a permit.' still quoting 'call an attorney or your state rep.' She really was pretty damn rude.

• View Reports by unclejhim
BR.steelslinger Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 12:06pm
answer

The amendment eliminates constitutional language specifically allowing the Legislature to regulate concealed weapons.

I personally do not think our judicial system is going to tolerate or allow lawlessness simply to protect our 2nd amendment rights. Instead, they will review those laws governing our right to bear arms and examine them under a microscope and in the public opinion courts before jumping to any irrational conclusions (when called upon to do so). Legislators behind closed doors can get away with murder and slip stuff by us after its too late for us to yell “FOUL” and stop it. I don’t trust them to always do the right thing. There is a long history in Louisiana politics of them NOT always doing the right thing.

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Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 12:22pm
Laws still in place

My understanding that the Louisiana laws are still in place making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon and also establishing a system where you can get a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon.

Passing Amendment 2 did not automatically eliminate those laws.

However, the amendment states that any laws that restrict gun owners rights must be subject to the higher standard of 'strict scrutiny' when reviewed by the courts as to whether or not they are constitutional.

This may ultimately set the stage for someone to challenge those laws, but as it stands, they are still on the books and valid until a court says otherwise.

P.S. I am not an attorney and this is my personal opinion.

Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 3:37pm
Where did you sleep?

I see your not an attorney, but did you sleep at a Holiday Inn last night?

Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 3:54pm
No Holiday Inn.

Mike:

I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but I do know a little about the law and have worked for the same law firm for 25 year.s I do a lot of legal research.

This was one of the claims that the opponents of the Amendment were using in attempt to defeat it.

It may very well work out that concealed carry could become legal without needing a permit, but that is not the case just because the Amendment passed.

Lamplighter Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 7:18pm
No Valid Answer Yet

We have all gave our opinions, and the State Trooper knows nothing. I wouldn't expect her to. I was a State Agent for 10 years. I know how it works internally. I would never call the troop for an answer.

We still don't know. Sooner or later we will find out. It looks to me the permit is out the door.

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jasrrt Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 8:16pm
too early to tell....

I agree with Chris. It will most likely be done away with in time but may need to be challenged first. Or he courts may volentarily re-examine existing laws to determine 'strict scrutiny'. Either way we will have to wait and see.

I also don't always trust law enforcement to know every law in the books. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2dC8MDKKTE

I wouldn't enlist the knowledge of the state police.

• View Reports by jasrrt
jasrrt Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 8:22pm
also..

The state Police collect something like $125 per permit. So if you ask an agency that collects money for permits if they are doing away with permits, what do you think they would say?

@BR.steelslinger: I don't consider law abiding citizens carrying concealed to be lawlessness. Crimials that plan on using guns for violence are not gonna stop to check the law to see if its okay. Their just gonna commit the crime. I would feel more at ease if more good law abiding citizens were carrying guns.

• View Reports by jasrrt
Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 07, 2012 at 11:29pm
The law

This law in no way changes existing gun laws and it does not have the intent to change gun laws. The only thing this does is make it more difficult for the gov't to enact laws that restrict you gun rights. It does not even comment on concealment.

I think some are reading that the law is overriding existing laws by it wording, but if you notice when it says bear, posses, keep, use etc the word conceal is never used. So it doesn't give you the right to conceal any weapon.

Lamplighter Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 7:02am
Only Time Will Tell

Mike, it's not wording that was added, BUT wording that was omitted. Specifically the wording that said ' but this shall not interfere with the ability for legislature to regulate the concealed carry..... '

You might be right, but you offer no background as to why you would know. I'm no rocket scientist either, but I do have the B.A in CJ from SLU, 10 years LEO State, and laws such as Title 14, well you know, the 101 law school stuff, Intent, an Act, timely mix of both, each element of a crime, etc... If the wording was removed from Title 14, then you cannot have a crime.

You all know our State- only time will tell. Calling a CCW instructor to ask is not an answer. Time- the only answer.

• View Reports by Lamplighter
TRIGGERHAPPY Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 7:40am
CHANGES

What they did was not add anything, they changed the wording on the law. According to the link I provided above from 'NOLA.COM' they claim that 'The amendment also eliminates constitutional language specifically allowing the legislature to regulate concealed weapons'. Or did they write this to start a panic by the liberals, either way I'm ok with it.

• View Reports by TRIGGERHAPPY
motorboat Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 7:43am
OK

You guys will argue that the sun didn't rise this morning. Chris is right.

I have a law degree.

• View Reports by motorboat
TRIGGERHAPPY Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 7:57am
Law Degree?

Since when does having a law degree make someone right? I'm fairly certain all 9 members of the supreme court have law degrees and they still think the 2nd amendment is open to interpretation even know it's plainly written. I don't believe any of us know exactly what this law means, just like the health care bill nobody read and voted in favor of without all the details. This will be open to discussion until the first case where someone gets stopped for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit and the judge hearing the case gives their interpretation of the law. All I understand so far is at the very least this law makes it more difficult to restrict the right that the 2nd amendment already provided.

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EauxDee Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 9:28am
CCP

Despite what the Amendment states, you should take the course anyway. Reason is, you need to know the laws and the do's and don't's. It's a huge responsibility to carry a weapon that is capable of taking a life. You might feel 10 feet tall and bulletproof but lack of common sense will get you killed. My instructor, Ernie Gammon told me 'Don't go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things'! These are words to live by if you choose to carry a weapon. I spent 6 years in the Army and I learned more in the 9 hour course than I did my entire life. Please don't get all John Wayne. Take the course....it will make you more aware and just may save your life....and somebody else's too. God Bless America.

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falcon1 Profile Photo
Posted November 08, 2012 at 8:56pm
carry laws

i would not mind if Louisiana went to a system more like Alabama for concealed carry.

in Alabama, you go to your local courthouse, tell them you want a concealed carry permit, they run your record, if you have no felonies, and no restraining order, you get a permit, right then and there, for the whopping sum of $15. it is an annual permit, but very easy.

my wife and I went to a concealed carry class, but after finding out all the fees and red tape you had to go thru to get the permit, we never went any further.

also, i found out, almost the hard way, that you need a permit to carry a loaded pistol in your vehicle in most, if not all other states but Louisiana. i was very relieved when the nice Alabama police officer handed me back my Kimber, and told me since Louisiana honors Alabama's cc laws, he was going to let it slide.

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Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 6:11am
I don't understand

I still don't understand how concealing a weapon makes it more dangerous to law abiding citizens? I do understand how it makes it more dangerous to criminals!

I don't understand why I need to pay the government any taxes so that I can carry a concealed weapon??? That one has me confused!!!

I don't understand why I am required to register with the gov't and take classes and pay fines... I mean taxes to carry a gun under my shirt! Seems to me it would be easier for a criminal to get my gun from me if it we out in the open???

jasrrt Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 6:23am
Yes

Ageed!

• View Reports by jasrrt
Lamplighter Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 6:38am
Reply

[ i would not mind if Louisiana went to a system more like Alabama for concealed carry.

in Alabama, you go to your local courthouse, tell them you want a concealed carry permit, they run your record, if you have no felonies, and no restraining order, you get a permit, right then and there, for the whopping sum of $15. it is an annual permit, but very easy.

my wife and I went to a concealed carry class, but after finding out all the fees and red tape you had to go thru to get the permit, we never went any further.

also, i found out, almost the hard way, that you need a permit to carry a loaded pistol in your vehicle in most, if not all other states but Louisiana. i was very relieved when the nice Alabama police officer handed me back my Kimber, and told me since Louisiana honors Alabama's cc laws, he was going to let it slide. ]

[quote]

I feel the same way. Its just not that important to me to go through the hum bug right now. I carry in the truck, and stay away from bad areas. I carry a commercial Chase envelope into/out of Chase Bank alot, but I always scan the parking lot and see who is hanging around, sitting in cars, and why- just aware. Why is that grown adult riding a bicycle in circles in Rouse's Parking lot ?

If it got easier, I'd be down in Gonzales at Waggenspack Reload getting my LCR tomorrow. Anyway, yall keep this thread posted.

• View Reports by Lamplighter
Switchback03 Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 12:55pm
Just go get one

I hope that they continue to go with the permits. There is a lot of information concerning situations, safety, laws, and legal/non-legal carrying spots with the class. Just because a person does not have a record does not make them competent enough to parade around in public with a loaded weapon. I have a permit, and have for years. Just to clarify other posts....it is NOT hard to obtain a permit and there is no red tape surrounding it. It is, however, a timely process. You 1) take the class and the test. 2) Shoot on a range. 3) Get your paperwork noterized. 4) Send packet along with a passport photo and finger prints to the State Police. It used to come in 2 and 4 year permits, but now it is a flat $125 for 5 years. Recieving permits in the mail is a turn around of 120 days or less. Also...to clarify again...you CAN carry in public without the permit. It just cannot be concealed. Louisiana is an open carry state. You can strap on any sidearm that you would like, tuck your shirt in, and hit the town. So, for people that have an issue with the money or ther permit....that is not keeping you from carrying a gun...only concealing it

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maisweh Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 2:01pm
GUN

wheres drew-b, i bet he would know

• View Reports by maisweh
Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 09, 2012 at 4:42pm
Just go get one???

'Just go get one' you say! No thank you, I don't wont the government having my name in a database concerning gun ownership.

Such databases are illegal you know... oh wait this isn't a gun ownership database it is a database of people with concealed carry permits.... ah that is different... yeah right!

fowlfish Profile Photo
Posted November 10, 2012 at 4:06am
Guns

They already know who has guns, every time u buy one, unless u buy from individuals

.

• View Reports by fowlfish
Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 10, 2012 at 6:39am
not legal

It is illegal to keep records of a gun purchase from any store for more than a year.

Lamplighter Profile Photo
Posted November 10, 2012 at 7:02am
repeat

Just go get one

I hope that they continue to go with the permits. There is a lot of information concerning situations, safety, laws, and legal/non-legal carrying spots with the class. Just because a person does not have a record does not make them competent enough to parade around in public with a loaded weapon. I have a permit, and have for years. Just to clarify other posts....it is NOT hard to obtain a permit and there is no red tape surrounding it. It is, however, a timely process. You 1) take the class and the test. 2) Shoot on a range. 3) Get your paperwork noterized. 4) Send packet along with a passport photo and finger prints to the State Police. It used to come in 2 and 4 year permits, but now it is a flat $125 for 5 years. Recieving permits in the mail is a turn around of 120 days or less. Also...to clarify again...you CAN carry in public without the permit. It just cannot be concealed. Louisiana is an open carry state. You can strap on any sidearm that you would like, tuck your shirt in, and hit the town. So, for people that have an issue with the money or ther permit....that is not keeping you from carrying a gun...only concealing it

Again, good info but you are preaching to the choir. Remember I graduated the LSP academy and served 10 full time years in Law Enf in the field. I am not Joe Blow which end does the projectile come out of. Anyway, we have to wait and see. Internal experience has showed me that when doubt & confusion exists, the public info officers are instructed to stick to the ' NO ' side of a debate to CYA until it is resolved. Only time passing will get this settled. The wording was removed.

• View Reports by Lamplighter
stancel Profile Photo
Posted November 12, 2012 at 3:22pm
chp

My dad just took the class so he could get the unconstitutional permit to carry concealed. According to the LSP (he asked when getting finger printed), the Amendment does not change the requirement for a permit to carry concealed. I don't think the side of the road is the place to debate that with a police officer, so you should just get the permit. Maybe one day we will be a Right to Carry state, but not yet.

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abeastandasavage Profile Photo
Posted November 12, 2012 at 9:12pm
stancel???

a right to carry state will be a lot less crime!!

• View Reports by abeastandasavage
wishiwasfishin Profile Photo
Posted November 13, 2012 at 1:12pm
Really?

Some of you guys are truly ignorant.

The NRA should have pulled this Bill before it ever went to the Polls. It began as a really good Bill but by the time our Legislators Gutted it into the single sentence that it became, it now offers less protection of our 2nd Ammendment rights than we had before.

This in NO WAY AFFECTS THE CONCEALED CARRY LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. This is only an Ammendment to the Louisiana State Constitution. ALL LAWS Restricting Concealed Carry ARE STILL IN PLACE.

Below is only 2, there are many others;

RS 40:1379.3 Statewide Permits for concealed Firearms

RS 14:95.2 Carrying a Firearm............or Firearm-free zone.

I won't spend all day on this, you should be able to Google these and see that the Laws HAVE NOT CHANGED.

Do your research and stay out of trouble Guys.

• View Reports by wishiwasfishin
Chris Holmes , Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 13, 2012 at 1:26pm
No name calling.

No need for calling anyone ignorant and I take offense to your comments. Constitutional ballot amendments are often confusing. Several users were unsure as to what actual affect the passage of Constitutional Amendment 2 will actually have. Several others were right on.

For the record, the NRA supported the Amendment before and after the legislative process. The purpose of the Amendment is to strenghten gun rights under the Louisiana state constitution. The Amendment overwhelmingly passed!

Bottom line is that in the future, it will be MORE difficult for the Louisiana legislature to pass laws that restrict the rights of gun ownership. Passage of this Amendment in no way lessens our gun rights--if that's the case, why were the anti's so opposed to it???

Though none of the current laws have changed as a result of this Amendment passing, future challenges to existing laws may be forthcoming using it as a basis for the challenge.

motorboat Profile Photo
Posted November 13, 2012 at 2:14pm
Again

Chris is correct here except the remark about ignorance. Chris--I appreciate your diplomacy, but many people here truly are ignorant and see and hear only what they want to.

The bottom line is that this amendment makes it harder for the legislature or municipalities to pass laws that restrict citizens' right to bear arms.

For instance, say that the Welsh, LA City Council passes an ordinance that all handguns in City Limits are subject to registration whether new or used. Say I, as a gun owner, challenge this law as unconstitutional. In Court, the validity of this law would be scrutinized under the strictest constitutional test. 99% of laws challenged under this standard are defeated.

I can't explain it any simpler than that.

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Lamplighter Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 5:57am
Again, HOW do you know ?

I am looking for HOW it is that you know what the amendment really did. ARE U a legislator assistant for the lawmaker that was on that committee ? HOW is it that you know what it meant ?

We all read it and form our own interpretations, but I'm looking for someone in a position to know. LSP is not it.

• View Reports by Lamplighter
Choupic-Man Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 6:18am
Lamplighter

Dont you know LSM viewers have the final say on all laws regarding gun laws ??

Whenever legislation has a question they log in to LSM .. Lol

• View Reports by Choupic-Man
LatchKnee Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 9:10am
I Have The Answer!!

Ok, Ok guys. See, it's reeeeaal simple: All of you 'in the know' on this topic just strap on your .460 S&W Mags (shoulder holster under jacket, of course), walk into any Mall around Baton Rouge or New Orleans, then just comment to any cop you pass: 'Oh, isn't it great I can carry my piece now with no permit'. Truly, this is the ONLY way the issue will resolve. You will be challenged, likely arrested then forced to challenge the provisions of the new amendment. You will hire an attorney who chooses to accept your case and include a civil lawsuit against the arresting agency for violation of your constitutional rights. Using 'strict scrutiny' standard of review, a judge will rule (not an issue for the jury until your criminal trial if felony) Ultimatley, the LA Supreme Court will accept writs and 'rule'. It may even find itself at the U.S.Supreme Court with enough fan fare and attention. Donnkow guys, but this is likely how it will work. For the record, I agree that that the plain language of the amendment makes clear (retroactively) that ALL such laws restricting right to keep and bear arms in this state are not 'automatically' abolished, but rather must past the highest level of scrutiny to survive legal challenge. I VOTED FOR the amendment as I DO believe it gives our firearm ownership a 'hand up' towards LESS or NO restriction. In this regard, and based on this level of legal standard, NOT MANY such laws restricting firesarm ownership and carry can survive; hence, ANY such restrictive law on ownership, carry, possession, etc. CANNOT survive. Just my 2 pennies based on 33 years of legal practice; and making a prettey good, and honest, living at it.

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Choupic-Man Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 11:34am
Latch

I was thinking more of Clint Eastwood pistols with the long cowboy trenchcoat , and maybe the cigar too ?

Latch even if Louisiana has the best , most protected gun laws in the whole country , and the federal gov. , or Obama decides to ban guns , would that ban be for everybody else but La . ? Or every state including la. ?

As you may know by now I'm not exactly up to par on all of my political stand points but I always thought that federal was over state and if federal wants to take our guns , La.s lil amendment that we just passed will not hold up to them . I'm still reading threads that are saying Obama is working towards getting our guns .. What's up with that ?

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Mike Guerin, Louisiana Sportsman Field Reporter Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 2:27pm
choupic

Clarification. State laws can be more restrictive than federal law but not the other way around. Meaning if the federal gov't banned guns then it would be illegal in Louisiana although it wouldn't be a violation of Louisiana law.

abeastandasavage Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 7:21pm
wishiwasfishin??

i guess u can call me ignit!!! no problem!! u got the right to your opinion, so far!!!

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LatchKnee Profile Photo
Posted November 18, 2012 at 8:27pm
No Ignorance

I don't think (most) of you guys are ignorant or stupid at all. Fact is, most of us are passionate about our freedoms and rights. As usual, our bumbling politicians muck it all up. Quote of the year by 'Carter', a New Orleans politician: 'What the president is saying is that the rich SHOULD pay their fair share, and even a little more'!!! True story. Look it up and see video!! Really, Ms. Carter!!??!!?? NOW THERE'S AN IDIOT! How many of us have ever had jobs paying our salaries from POOR PEOPLE?? Inequities?? I don't know. Maybe? But it only started with gun rights. Now they have made it a war of 'us' (rich) against 'them' (poor). Instead of incentivizing those 'less fortunate' to become educated and to stop trying to scam the system and 'the Man', our government placates to them because to keep the 'less fortunate' dependent by throwing them tokens via social programs keeps their vote. Hence, the vicious circle continues. My Pop worked hard, put three boys through private school and college and SACRIFICED to do it. He and momma DID WITHOUT! Now that my wife and I have 'made it!', I give back to them 100 fold!!, but we're called: 'Those evil rich people'. I'll be *^&^%% if I will ever apologize to my government (or the 'less fortunate') for the blood, sweat, tears and hard work it took to get here. YES, I DID BUILT IT, IDIOT! No, Yall are not IGNIT at all!! Thanks for letting me vent guys and gals.

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JW WILDMAN Profile Photo
Posted May 11, 2013 at 9:39am
I'll stick with the carry permit

I've had a permit for many years even though I 'technically' didn't need one because of my law enforcment commission, because I didn't want to argue the law with some constable in BF Louisiana. So until the Supreme Court rules on this law one way of the other, I'm keeping my permit in tact. Better safe than sorry.

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JW WILDMAN Profile Photo
Posted May 11, 2013 at 9:46am
Colorado and California

It would seem that Federal Law would supersede except for the 10th amendment. However, please note that they are selling marijana in Colorado and California in violation of Federal law. So if the states won't help the feds enforce the law, I don't think they have enough manpower to do it themself.

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Admiral Rabbit Profile Photo
Posted May 11, 2013 at 1:39pm
'From Flying Tigers to Swimming Tigers'

...is not a small auto or revolver 'outside' the belt be considered as 'open carry'...in some States just the 'clearance proof' to buy qualifies to carry...(in the meantime they scalping tons of money off of 'fees' when one entity don't reconize another )...the step sequence should be the same as a pilot...written test,check ride,license...(then fly under bridges and do loops before the mental exams)...cheers ???

P/S...the real danger is 'ambitious doctors' writing not needed prescription drugs...cheers

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