I am thinking the same way , if you want to hurt someone then go for their pocket book , what the NFL did was hurt the fans , I would have to guess that the player suspensions are going to be staggered so 1/2 the players will miss the first 8 games and the rest will miss the last 8 , I think a few players will be out the entire season , what chance does a team have to be competative like that , it will make for some really bad games that no one across the country will watch -----Porter just got a 4 mil deal with Denver , I think he won't collect all that money , half if he is lucky ------ Peyton is a good coach but I feel this will effect the team for longer than the one year , maybe the Saints should try another coach and if he does good stick with him and dump Peyton , Bill Percels has been mentioned on NFL Network as a possible interrum head coach ,he was Peyton's teacher , my choice if he would give up commentating would be John Gruden

the saints just got caught, they all do it!! like speeding, everyone does, some people get caught, some don't!!! somebody, just don't like the saints!!!

Gotta disagree with you guys on this. If they would only fine the owners and coaches, you have owners with alot deeper pocket books than others. I could just imagine the outcry over here if the cowboys would repeatedly get caught and fined without suspensions. J.J. would do it again and again and pay another fine. All that would do is lead to fans complaining about 'richer' teams being able to get away with it because they can afford it.

Hurting the fans? This will open a can of worms and get me killed, but what about the fans of the teams that had players hurt by the saints players. I'm sure they feel like they have a pretty good argument about how they where 'punished' because the saints cheap shotted their qb's and knocked them out of the game. No matter what you won't be able to convince some fans that their team would not have won it all if the saints hadn't played dirty. Kinda like if the Vikings knocked breeze out of the game with a cheap shot and the saints lost the game. Every saint fan in the world would go to the grave believing they got 'punished'.
Kinda like college. Recruiting violations 'punish' the fans when they yank scholarships instead of a monetary fine to the school.

Cajunhorn, find me 1 play in the games involving the alleged bounties that the Saints were flagged for 'unnecessary roughness'... Lets not forget, these guys are playing in the NFL, its not flag f'n football!!! I totally agree with Ricky!! And not to mention, why should they lose 2 draft picks? Goodell is punishing people who had nothing whatsoever to do with the bounty program!!

Bucks, that ship has sailed. If you haven't watched the replays on espn and so forth well i'm not going to beat a dead horse there. Why take draft picks? What the hell, can't fine a team for breaking rules because it will punish fans, now you don't want to yank draft picks? Hell why have rules if there is no enforcement.

Still gotta go back to what's fair is fair. What if the shoe was on the other foot and breeze got knocked out with a cheap shot and nothing was done. I've lived here 15 yrs and the whole time its been the nfl doesn't like us for this or that wa wa. You guys would be crying so hard about the nfl not liking the poor small market saints team and they want us to move to L.A..that the Katrina flood would pale in comparison to the alligator tears flooding new orleans. I just think its funny that a team that has never had crap at qb until now(sorry Arch)all of a sudden has no problem targeting qb's from other teams. Like it or not the nfl is a qb driven league, and they will do what they have to protect them. They will always take the side of an elite qb over a back up utility player sent in to knock him out. You want to talk about how bad the games are going to be because a few guys are suspended a few games. Well start knocking out the Breezes, Manning, Rogers, Brady's of the nfl and see how crappy it gets. Its alot easier to find 300 lb hood rats to chase qb's than it is to find a qb.

Now let me guess. If Loomis is busted breaking the rules and state and federal laws there should be no punishment because the fans would be punished.

Unfair to punish the fans and Benson???? It is up to the owner to ensure that his team is playing by the rules. It is up to EVERYONE involved in or supporting an organization to DEMAND rules be followed.
As for the 'shouldn't punish the fans' issue. Let's say you catch your 16 year old son sneaking in at 3 a.m. and he is drunk. Just so happens that Prom is the next weekend. You can't punish him right? After all, punishing him would also punish his girlfriend, all of his friends and even the school. That would be unfair wouldn't it?Punishments are only unfair when they effect YOU, they are never unfair when it happens to someone else. I promise you that if Atlanta would have been caught doing this, the same people crying of unfairedness would be calling for Atlanta's coaches head!!!

Cajunhorn,

Saints fan or no Saints fan, this whole bounty thing is rediculous. Yes the Saints were guilty of having such a rediculous program, but what did it actually amount to? Nothing!!! The Saints defense didn't excute it on the field and that's a fact. I watched the same film you watched and all those hits your refer to where legal hits. I don't recall any qb or any other player getting carted off the field because of a hit a Saints player put on them. And don't tell me about Kurt Warner and Bret Farve. Those were also legal hits. Was the defense targeting the qb on those plays? Absolutly. Just like every other defense in football. It's the defense's job to get after the qb everytime he drops back to pass. The only thing the Saints did wrong is create an incentive to punish opponents with hard hits. Gregg Williams should have been fired for implementing such a program and Sean Payton should have stopped it and not lied about it. I would feel no differently had this been another team. And as for as teams coming after Breeze, Manning, Rogers, ect., you better bet they do every game. The problem is, these qb's are so good and their o-lines are very good, that they don't take many hits. Do your homework before making these crazy comments and quit hating on the Saints. I also won't be suprised if they make the Superbowl this year even without the head coach. I believe this team is just that good. The defense wasn't good the last 3 years anyway and we are picking up better players who will play hard this year. WHO DAT!!! And the newest thing with Loomis is B.S. That's why he may sue ESPN for bogus info.

Some of you guys have made some good points and I do appreciate the fact that so far you have kept the debate very civil. I would like to point out that not one player has ever been proved to have been injured by an illegal hit by a Saints defender in the last 3 years. They were penalized for the intent to do harm. I do believe that Goodell has a personal vendetta against Sean Payton, as do more and more national sports writers. Read my original post, Payton is guilty and no doubt should be punished, it is only the method of punishment that I disagree with. Right now Goodell is really putting it to the Saints by not releasing the player penalties in advance of the draft. In my opinion if the Saints should have a good year, go to the playoffs and maybe beyond, it would crush Goodell. He wants them to fail so that will be a message to the rest of the teams not to mess with him. His worst nightmare would be to have to give the Lombardi trophy to Benson in the Superdome next February. I know that is unlikely, but wouldn't that just be the ultimate WHO DAT???????

Thanks for opening the conspiracy theory. What does Goodell have against payton. What do he, or the nfl gain by punishing the saints. They have been the nfl's sweetheart team since Katrina. Makes no sense. Let's see. We have a team that for the first 50 yrs didn't win a playoff game and the fans showed up wearing grocery bags over their head, and the owner wants to leave town.Losing money for the leauge. Now, they have been one of the top 3 teams for the last 5 years, tv's all over are watching these games that have never tuned in to the saints, jerseys are flying off the racks, and seats are full, making the league money. Let's punish? Makes no sense.

I must have missed the sports reports about all these talking heads thinking Goodell has an axe to grind. It starts at the top and works down. Always has, always will.

As far as Loomis goes. If it was done and your saying it was no big deal, how would you feel if it happened to you. I highly doubt you where saying the nfl and goodell had an axe to grind against belichek and the pats during spygate, but I guess this is the part where you tell me you where.

This isn't a conspiracy or anything of the sort. Roger Goddel had to make an example out of someone and that someone just so happens to be the Saints. Saints fans might not like the punishments, but Goddel has to do something to make a statement that he nor the league will tolerate such actions. Also, what people don't realize is the fact that the NFL has a bunch of lawsuits pending against them for injuries caused to players who are retired or can no longer play the game. Goddel is handing down these hard punishments to show that something is being done about protecting its players and that they are commit to doing so. What we witnessed in the pro-bowl this year is just a taste of what's to come because of liability issues. Lawsuits is the main reason the NFL came down so hard on the Saints. The bottom line is the Saints should have known better and are now paying the price. I think it was handled correctly. However, I don't think its going to impact this Saints team all that much. The players that will be suspended were going to be replaced anyway. The Saints needed to improve on defense anyway. Also, the Saints have not been in the league for 50 years and the did win a playoff game before Breeze came along.

The bottom line is the Saints broke rules and should be punished.

Bottom line is Goodell isn't just punishing the saints because what they did was so horrible. This is vengeance against Brees for almost single handedly preventing an 18 game season.

This holyer than thou attitude is not the truth. Think about it. If what the saints did was so heinous, then why was it possible for them to get caught and receive NO penalty?

Think about it. Goodell was willing to let bygones be bygones. But now that the saints didn't listen to him it is a capital offense.

Lets put this into perspective. The New England Patriots won the super bowl and we found to have cheated their way to that super bowl. Penalty? 1/5 a mill.!!!

Rewarding players like every team illegally does according to the players themselves.... Lose coach for a year... no pay. player fines coming. Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely! And more.

So the NFL is so concerned about player safety that they weren't even going to punish the saints for this infaction and now it is the worst sin that could ever be committed. I ain't buying it.

Doe Chaser - You are right nothing came of it. Let's say someone has a plan together to burn your house down but it rains that night and their ignition source won't light thus, your house is safe. Nothing should happen to the criminal right? No harm no foul???

*DISCLAIMER* This is just a hypothetical statement. I have no intention or know of nobody with the intention of burning a house down!!!!

Mike you lost me on that one. are you saying the saints weren't going to be punished? Punishment came down pretty quickly once the cat was out of the bag. Once the audio of Greg Williams came outit was an open and shut case.

Still haven't heard an answer as to what Goodell and the NFL gain by 'punishing' the saints for breaking the rules.

As far as the Loomis shenanigans who knows. maybe true, maybe not. If true, I guess we'll be hearing how it didn't matter they where catching signals. It would be funny though if in a few years it was discovered that Nick Satan and his staff used the Loomis device to take LSU behind the wood shed in the Natty last year. Boy i bet that tune would change in a heart beat.

This post isn't even going to have all of the dots. There are more dots but attention spans and stuff ya know.

Dot one: Patriots get caught cheating their way to the superbowl. Fine 500,000 dollars to one of the richest organizations in the NFL.

Dot two: Saints got caught breaking the rules and what does Goodell do. He sends the Saints a memo saying stop. What does the Sean do. Sends it on to Gregg. Nothing changes. Goodell gets pissed because he views the Saints actions as a snub.

Dot three: Drew Brees organizes players union and the players come out in force, united against Goodells goal to have an 18 game season.

Dot four: without Brees keeping the players together there is little doubt that there would be an 18 game season. What is the trump card played by the players union. Player safety!!! Remember that.

Dot five: Goodell drops the megabomb on the saints. Infraction goes from something Goodell is willing to totally overlook... NO PENALTY whatsover, to a penalty that if you total it all up will amount to 100 times more severe than the when the patriots got caught cheating their way to the superbowl.

Focus on the penalty going from something that Goodell was willing to overlook (warning ticket) to the electric chair. Head coach 7.5 million dollar fine and can't even talk to the players. Gregg basically fired. Probably a life sentence. And more and more still coming.

If Goodell is sooo concerned about this being such a horrible infraction then why was he willing to overlook it originally. Why has no team ever been penalized for this before. It is commonly done and has been going one for decades!

This doesn't even touch on the individual ownership of teams versus everything being under Goodell's umbrella that he wanted but lost out on as well.


[quote]Still haven't heard an answer as to what Goodell and the NFL gain by 'punishing' the saints for breaking the rules.[/quote]

Revenge!

Your wrong about the 18 game season. That began in the 2010 season. Why, the CBA was going to be ratified the next summer. The players surveyed 100% against an 18 game season. It was a cute little show when Breeze and the guys met in the middle of the field, but that argument had already been settled with the ratification of the CBA.
Your upset the saints got punished in one post, yet mad that they weren't punished fast enough in another. What would you have liked. As soon as Goodell finds out about the bounty program suspend all defensive players and coaches, or put in due diligence and find the ones responsible and punish only them.
You keep referring to every team doing it. Where inspector. In this day of twitter, trades, hard feelings, pre madonnas, and espn, you really think someone wouldn't have gotten pissed off at an old team and spilled the beans.
Lastly, if you think someone that runs a multi multi billion dollar league is small minded enough to make these decisions based on grudges, stay in the marsh the worlds to big for you. This is a money driven league like anything else. There is no financial gain for the nfl by nailing the saints.
Anyways, I'm a huge sports nut, and I'm kinda pissed I don't know about all these other teams bounty programs. Can you tell me where you found it and what teams. I'd like to read up on it.

Mike your dots make sense to me! Ha! Ha! Seriously though the penalties have everything to do with the pending laws suits. Goodell wants to hang everything on the Saints, use them as the bad boy example, excuse all the other teams as long as they don't do anything in the future because if the real truth came out, it would put the biggest black eye on the whole league that ever was. He wants to keep this contained to the Saints and there will be no investigations of any kind on any other team ever. So do you guys that disagree, think that Goodell is not stalling purposely to ruin the Saints draft? Please! Do you guys think Goodell wishes the Saints well this season and wants them to have a great season? Not!!! Because according to your theories he has nothing against them on a personal level, right? Double not!!!! The guy is like a king, he has no congress, no committee, what he says goes--period! An appeal--yeah right--good luck with that one. Ok, I am done for today, just had to vent a little, have a great night guys!

Ricky - I think you are 100% correct. The Saints are being made an example of.

ugghh I posted a long response only to see that I wasn't logged in and lost it all.


In short I will just respond to the last part because I am not typing that in all over again.

Yes, people in high places are certainly not immune to being power hungry, and holding grudges. That IS how the world works.

First of all, Cajunhorn where are you from??
Secondof all, you even admitted that New Orleans is a small team (comaritively speaking), so why wouldnt Goodell want them out of NOLA and into L,A.?? It would mean more $$$ right??? I thought so!!
Third, if Goodell doesnt have any sort of grucge against the Saints, why could he throw the coaches in the slammer overnight, but cant decide on what to do with the players for a month? Is he still investigating?? Then he shouldnt have punished the coaches yet...
And just to make myself clear, I do agree that the coaches deserved punishments... But compared to the Spygate thing, was this punishment fair?? I dont think so, especially given the fact that neither cajunhorn or Goodell can find an illegal hit that any Saints defense put on their 'target' that took them out of the game!!

In my opinion, I think its all bull. This is football and hard hits have always been part of the game. If any of ya'll listened to Joe Vitt yesterday, he said it best. 'It's all about what you say' The players on the field have never displayed such behavior that would should they ever intended to intentially injur someone. No player every wants to intentially injur another player. Coaches use certain language to motivate and inspire their players. In the world of social media, we are all help accountable for what we say or do. Gregg Williams crossed the line with what he told his players to do. However, there is no proof that any of these players did what he told them to do. It should even be called a bounty program. It should be called 'pay for performance'. I played football and my coach would always say 'smack em in the mouth', 'take em out'.........ect. It's all about how it's perceived. Doesn't mean to go out an criple the guy, it just means take him out of his game........not the game. We live in a politically correct and sue happy world today and we have to watch what we say or do or we will be held accountable. The way the world works today is absolute crazy and its sad that's the way it is.

First 18 yrs. grew up in south central texas, 4 yrs. in the USAF, i moved to La. and have been living here for 15 1/2 yrs. Saints fan-no, LSU fan-huge.

Still don't understand why your pissed he hasn't made a call on the players yet. Do you wish he shot from the hip and suspended the wrong players? Or take the time for due diligence.

Coaches punishment, once the audio was out, Williams was toast. Being conspiracy theorist I'm assuming ya'll are suprised Williams is in trouble since he's not with the saints any longer. Payton's punishment was simple. As i saw on Outside The Lines, in Paytons book he talked about how he is a micromanager and nothing goes on that he doesn't have his finger in it. They eluded to that being why Goodell didn't take Paytons word that he knew nothing of it.

Kinda like if you have three sons and you tell them to go beat the snot out of another kid. When that happens you would be in more trouble than your kids. Bad example maybe, but its all I got.

Personally i think this will only help the saints. They will definitly have a us against the world mentaility. Have you seen there schedule. The only team with a pulse in their first 8 games is against Denver. They will be fine. Its not like they're known for their defensive prowess. They go as far as the drew and company take them. They could keep their entire coaching staff and all players, but lose breeze and you would be praying to go 8-8. Saints will be fine next year.

Saints to L.A.. They have a long term stadium deal with the state that has now been picked up by Mercedes. That ship sailed a few years ago when the La. legislature decided to pay 5.5 million dollars a year to keep Benson here. Your going nowhere. Your next team to L.A. is more than likely going to be the Vikes. They are having stadium funding issues (and a collapsing roof)and are shopping themselves.

I agree with cajun's last post. I'm guessing he's a Dallas fan, right? We all know how Saints fans hate Dallas and Dallas hates the Saints. lol. It's all good. I still say this all came about because of the pending lawsuits. Pretty soon they going to be playing flag football because of saftey. NFL players who get paid millions of dallors to play the game, assume that risk. They should not be allowed to sue because of injuries when that's the risk they take. Cheap shots, now that's a differant story. I just don't buy into the whole bounty thing and I believe the only guilty party here is Greg Williams. Sean Payton did wrong by lying to his boss, the commisioner. Were the punishments harsh, yes. But I think they were justified and that the NFL is making a statement and example of the Saints to the rest of the league. Zero tolerance is the message and it will be used as a defense in the lawsuits. Also, I will add this just from a football point of view. Even without Breeze, I still think the Saints go 10-6 this year. With Breeze, we will be 13-3 and Superbowl champs without Payton............WHO DAT!!!

I am a boys fan. It's been rough since '95 for us. Without a doubt i've taken a lot of grief over here for it, but all in fun. I actually had nothing against the saints growing up, they weren't a threat I guess. They've defintily flipped the script though. At the end of the day I would give up watching pro ball, college is so much more fun for me. Either way, saints will be fine. Good luck guys. Thanks for the back and forth, makes rig time go by faster.

Ha! Dallas fan, figures!!! Now we know the rest of the story!!!
I dont want you to take me the wrong way. I agree there should be punishments, however I believe Payton's punishment was entirely too harsh... When have you seen in any sport a coach suspended from a year and not expected to even associate in any way with anyone in the whole league?? Name me 1 time that has happened, and if it has, what was the crime?
As for the players, Vilma should be the only 1 with a legitimate stiff penalty for personally putting a bounty on Favre... And anyone who put an illegal shot on any player under this bounty program should be gone for the year... However nobody including Goodell can find this hit. But you can believe he will suspend at least half a dozen players if not more, leaving the Saints already weak defense pretty vulnerable. (I know they picked up some good lb's, but how fast can they step in and be efficient for another team?) I hope fast!!! And for Goodell not to punish the platers before the draft... I call him a complete COWARD!!!!

I don't think the if the suspensions came out last month or after the draft that it's going to change their draft plans much. Draft plans are more of a blue print of long term plans than a stop gap measure for 3-4 games. Meaning if the saints where looking for more corners for the draft already, i don't think they forego the corners if they lose say 2 linebackers for 3-4 games.

It'd be nice to have an electronic listening device to know their plans though. Sorry I had to do it!

Doe Chaser - you need to warn people before you make predictions like 13-3!! I almost choked on my catfish po-boy!! How much money you got???????????
It's because of people like you that I have some of the toys I have now. 13-3 ...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You're killing me!!!!!!!!

i thought 10-6 with out brees was funnier! i guess chase daniell is a stud!

So where are the bets??
I say if they give Breese his long term contract, we'll go 10-6...
Cajunhorn, what does it feel like to have to cheer for Tony Romo every Sunday?? Just asking!!

Depends on if its an All-Pro weekend or a 3-4 interception weekend.

Bucks Only - '...we'll go 10-6'?? You play? What position do you play?
10-6 with Brees, with or without Payton, is a safe bet that I would never take part in. 13-3 however is bordering on physchotic

Nah, I dont play, but I've supported them for long enough thru thick and thin... So yea, WE'LL go 10-6...
I have a cousin that played for them, if that counts!

JB, You must have gotten hit in the head with a big fleur de lis as a child. Come on man, where's your spirit? I'm a huge Payton fan, but we gonna go with or without him. I'm with 13-3.

EARLY - In a way you are right. I used to work in the prison system and I just got sick to death of hearing 'This is our year!' 'This is our year!' I respect the die hard Saints fans, just sick of hearing it. The rest of the nation already has a negative view of Louisiana. It sure doesn't help that every football season they hear 'Who Dat Say Dey Gonna Beat Dem Saints?' yeah, there we go, that'll help our already illeterate persona. Let's not forget the 'Two Dat!' and 'Repeat Dat' and all the other sayings that have every other word misspelled making every Louisianian sound like Ghetto Trash.
Just my reasoning for not jumping on the bandwagon like millions of other so-called 'fans.' Not saying it's right, just explaining is all...

I'm not a gambling man. If I was I would be broke. lol I've been a Saints fan all my life and I will always be a fan. I agree that the nation has a negative view of Louisiana and that doesn't really bother me. There are plenty of ignorant people here in Louisiana, but there are also plenty of ignorant people all over this country. I'm an educated man and I know that this is not your momma or grandpaw's Saints. This team is for real and it shows on the field. My prediction is an educated prediction based on schedule and strength and not just because I'm a die hard fan. I was dead on the last two seasons in which they went 13-3 both seasons. I may be pushing it a little without the head coach, but there is no reason why this team doesn't win at least 10 or 11 games. I don't understand some peoples' reasoning or lack of for that matter. The Saints didn't loose anything on offense and the defense needed improvement anyway. If anything, they should be a dominate team for a least the next 5 years. I will even go out on a limb and predict that the Saints win two more superbowls before Breeze leaves the organization in 5 years. Non-Saints fans love to hate us. It's just the way it is. Not everyone here is ignorant!!

Well put Doe Chaser. I was brought up sittin in my daddy's lap in his recliner watching Archie and Dempsey (?spelling). After the game I had hearing damage from all of the armchair qb'n. We lost every game, but couldn't wait for the next one. So, It's in me the good, bad and the ugly.....

After looking at the schedule for next season,I must say that it will be hard for the team to go 8-8....probably will be the Colts of last year....however,the ruling by the Comish will not allow the team to even get any benefits from a bad season....yes the coach should be punished for his role in all of this but this is going to have a long term affect on the team...hate to see it and it is true that all teams have some sort of bounty system...it starts in little league...guys get stickers for big hits,Mr. De-Cleater awards......this season lets see how many folks we can knock out of games,just because we play touch defense...that's the bounty system,you're wearing the other teams jersey.... that's the way the NFL used to be before everyone in the world went gaga over offense and lots of points being scored...............I would love to see the Saints do like the NY Giants...and win it all in the Dome....Goddell would have to present the trophy in our own place to us after trying to bury us......that would be great.......a man can dream....it will be a tough road ahead,nothing but playoff contenders and up and coming teams on the horizon

We shall see what this does to the Saints this Season. They always play their best ball with a chip on their shoulder. So, we shall see. I don't think this will hurt them all that much to be honest. They won't skip a beat on offense. What happens on defense remains to be seen. What will hurt is not have Sean Payton there. He is one of the best game planners in the league and that will affect them in crucial situations. However, I still think this team wins at least 10 or 11 games and makes the playoffs.