i hunt tensas regulary and i think they need to stop shooting the young yearlings and small bucks it has great potential in the area and i have seen yearlings killed this year that may have weighed 50 pounds and that makes me sick

I know I seen some of those SMALL deer killed too- until TNWR changes the rules you will have those who kill the 'Brown and down' thpe hunts not just in TNWR but across the state. What is sad is TNWR has the potential to produce magnificent bucks. But it can't cause most deer are killed at 1-1.5 yrs old. There is no restictions such as 4 points on one side. One deer per HUN-weekend. Could you imagine if tensas were to set strict restrictions!!! We would see deer all the time like the 'old days' When TENSAS was TENSAS!!

i agree with you a hundred percent, i love hunting there but its a shame that no restrictions cant be placed so the herd could build up, if a buck in that area can reach 4 years of age he can be a hoss, other refuges in ms have proved that by placing antler restrictions on their bucks so i know it works

hey slicc, i had the same idea. if you gave everyone one deer per hunt then that would really make a difference. i've seen guys shoot pretty good bucks on saturday and round out the weekend by killing a spike on sunday.

the bears fave ruined the deer hunting in that part of the state

From what I've heard from a park ranger, not as many people are putting in for the lotteries as they used to have. That could be one factor involved.

I truly do think the bears have anything to do with the deer population- reason

1)There are bears across the USA tennesee, south carolina, north carolina, kentucky, etc. These states still have tremendous deer pop.

2) Bears are likly not to be real deer eaters. Deer quick and smart for the most part. Second the black bears there are very docile, they dont run much, dont attack, they keep mostly to them selves. Plus Up to 85% of the black bear's diet consists of vegetation,though they tend to dig less than brown bears, eating far fewer roots, bulbs, corms and tubers than the latter species Young shoots from trees and bushes during the spring period are important to black bears emerging from hibernation, as they assist in rebuilding muscle and strengthening the skeleton and are often the only digestible foods available at that time. During this period, they may also raid the nut caches of squirrels. Black bears are fond of honey, and will gnaw through trees if hives are too deeply set into the trunks for them to reach them with their paws.

Oh so there are not as many people dying to get in to the lottery anymore? why? That is the exact reason why- They travel 4+ hours away spend money on fuel - groceries- etc. and do NOT see or kill anything.
Thats why there are no hunters. What TNWR fails to understand is that we are hunters who would rather see deer and not be able to shoot due to limits. Than shoot everything doe-yearling-buck walking. I tell ya if the deer population incresed due to limits and hunter hunted the 3-5 year bucks. You would have 5,000 hunter puting their name in the hat.

Really interesting debate. I have to say that I don't think the problem is the lack of restrictions: In fact, I think it's fairly restrictive already.

Here's why:

1) You only get 1 deer. That's it. If you want to waste it on a yearling, that's fine, but I think most will wait for a better deer.

Sure, some yearlings are killed, but that really isn't a huge issue because there are many more bucks that live through the lottery hunts. And Dave Moreland has told me several times that shooting yearlings has no real impact because a percentage of young deer never reach maturity (or even their second birthday) because of natural mortality.

2) There is relatively little gun hunting. The fact of the matter is, bow hunting is less efficient. That means more deer make it to reach maturity.

BTW, I agree with SLICC about the bears. While the numbers of bears certainly have increased, there still are relatively few out there. Can't imagine they're mauling deer left and right or eating up all the groceries.

So why are the numbers down? No clue.

Let's keep the discussion going.

I've hunted Tensas many years and yes the deer numbers and particularly deer sightings have gone down dramatically from when Tensas was in it's prime 10 to 15 years ago. Tensas use to have less access via unimproved roads, no improved boat ramps and less improved ATV trails. Combine the better access with Tensas doing away with large farmland fields which were planted in soybeans and corn and timber further maturing which has drowned out alot more of the browse. When the (Field of Dreams) also known as the (Prison Sentence) which was the approximate 2000 acre field on Crystal road off the Jayhook trail was planted in agriculture deer, were prolific and were much larger. The first year the field was not planted we saw a decrease in buck weight of 40 to 50 lbs on mature bucks in our area that year which also reflected in horns. When fields were planted a 2 1/2 year old buck could weigh as much as 230lbs on Crystal rd from my recollection, 3 1/2 yr olds weighed 240,s and 4 yr olds often weighed as much as 270lbs or more. Guys would hunt near the field to see the monsters and every once in a while one would get caught going or coming from the field. I sat on the field one evening and watched 99 deer best I could count with 5 shooters better than Pope and Young but only one small deer ever came into the woods. The next morning when daylight came one giant was chasing does 500 yards out and a monster 240 lb 20' spread 6 point was chasing a doe 400 yards out. One evening I watched 8 bucks better than 140' feeding in the cut corn from 400 to 800 yards away, even though I had no chance at them I had a phenomenal hunt and went back every weekend no matter how cold and Tensas use to be brutally cold, I often broke ice for a mile in hip boots to get to the big buck triangle. In my opinion the items that are hurting Tensas the most is improved access which most everyone wants, lack of agriculture which is the single greatest cause of size reduction and loss of browse is significantly hurting carrying capacity and deer quality. I can leave Crystal rd heading north on foot through woods towards river at widest point and only encounter briars or browse on slew edges and this is across most of Tensas, the timber is too mature along with palmettos which doesn't allow any sunlight to forest floor for browse production. Ideally if I could have Tensas the way I want it would be with agriculture back, some strip clearcutting or thinning, some minimum on bucks such as 4 points on one side or 180 lbs or 19' main beam and an 80 lb minimum for anteerless deer. Couple this with 2 annual tags a year per person for Tensas, one anterless and one either sex tag and you would have the recipe for Iowa or Illinois quality hunting in Louisiana. This is our greatest public hunting treasure in La but is not managed anywhere near its potential. Ever notice how many deer are seen on road in Tensas, this is because most of the quality browse occurs in the first 20 yards off road because this is one of few places sunlight reaches forest floor.

i still think that shooting the young bucks and shooting the yearlings is hurting the refuge, a lot of those yearlings are knot heads, if tensas had some antler restrictions and size restriction on does i think it we would start seeing more big bucks, and i know the deer dont like the bears because i own land inside the refuge and we have lots of bears, i have seen as many as seven in one day on my place and when they come around the deer are gone, and i also think it would be good if some food plots were added to the refuge to give the deer some supplemental feeding, tensas has the potential but needs some management to restict the killing of the young deer and bring the herd back

ANDY, AREN'T YOU ALLOWED ONE DEER PER DAY ON THE LOTTERY. IF YOU ONLY HAD ONE DEER TAG FOR THE WHOLE WEEKEND THEN MAYBE SOME PEOPLE WOULD PASS UP SMALL DEER (THAT WOULD MAKE PEOPLE THINK BEFORE THEY SHOOT), BUT NOT WHEN YOU CAN DROP A SPIKE ON SAT. MORNING AND STILL GO BACK ON SUNDAY AND TAKE A 50 LB YEARLING.

I had hunted Tensas for over 15 years till the last 2 and didnt even apply for the lottery hunts or go on muzzleloader due to not seeing any or many deer over the last several years I hunted it. I know of some groups of guys who would go in the woods and kill as many as 3 deer each and just divide them up so each had one to check in. Most of these would be yearlings. Back when you used to see lots of deer you never saw a Bear in the area we hunted. When the bears came the deer left.

Tensas needs restrictions and that would solve a majority of the problem. Every other state that cares about the deer hunting employs some kind of restriction, and thats why alot of my friends and i hunt out of state because the deer hunting is so much better everywhere but here. I mean if u can afford a 5000 dollar club sure the hunting is good, but for the average joe louisiana sucks for deer hunting in general. There needs to be a statewide restriction for bucks, then tensas needs there own restriction. I hunt tensas a good bit and see a few good deer, but the potential it has is on par with missouri, iowa, and illinois. My friend has pictures to prove it who has some private land that butts up to the reserve. I just wonder why louisiana is always the last to do anything.

Bigjim is exactly right about the forest maturing and lack of thickets. The later born deer and later rut came about when they shut down hunting does with a bow in oct. This allowed the late born deer a better chance of survival. Unfortunatly, late breeding does do this every year. Late born fawns have poor horn developement compared to early born. Also the shooting of 'knotheads' will negate any attempts at managing for mature bucks. Only 40% of bucks will survive to 41/2 yrs. old, WITHOUT HUNTING. If indiscriminate either-sex hunting is allowed only 15% of bucks will reach 21/2 yrs. old. Look at Thisalwaite, one 9pt., 7 spikes, 17 knotheads. How does anybody think u can have a decent pop. of mature bucks with those numbers. I hunted Tensas before it was a refuge and was there for the first hunt they had and hunted there until 15yrs. ago when i bought some private land near there. I thought all u had to do in tensas parish was let the deer get older. WRONG!!! All u get is big old bucks with 16' 6or8 pt racks and weigh 225lbs. Only by keeping the pop. at one deer per 25acres,(LAWLF figures) or supplemental feeding can u keep their horns up. When they quit farming the land next to us and turned it into CRP the horns went downhill. Ikilled a 41/2 yr. old, 200+ lb. 3pt. sat. coming out of a CRP field, yet my wife killed a 200+ lb. 9pt. that was only 31/2 yrs. old just 1/2 mile away near a clover field. They have to have food and u must protect the 'knotheads' or all the antler restrictions in the world won't help. Bears have no effect on deer.I see them come across my foodplot all the time, the deer just stand and watch them, sometimes they will snort at them, but mostly just watch. If u dont feed corn u won't have a problem with bears. They will eat rice bran or deer pellets but spareingly. You've seen the Sasquatch commercials? a bear tore the side off my ground blind last week. The next day when he showed up i jumped out of my stand and chased him off. He would run when i did but stop and look at me when i stopped, never more than 40yds. away. next time i came by there he had taken my cushion and tore it into shreds!lol dont mess with sasquatch!!!

I swore i was gonna stay out of these dead end discussions but when i read Andy's comment about no affect shooting knotheads i almost became sick to my stomach. The most important deer to protect IS A KNOTHEAD!!! I dont care how good a hunter or how hard u hunt, u are not gonna kill all the mature bucks. Any day after Christmas i could kill every knothead on my place in one day. They spend all day feeding in the foodplots and have very little fear when i drive by. ' hunting yearlings has no affect because a lot dont reach maturity anyway' is rediculous. So even tho they have the highest natural mortality of any deer, the extra burden of hunting has no affect? I dont believe Dr. Dave believes this but if he does that answers the question of why deer hunting sucks now. We are about 5 miles from tensas and have plenty of bears and they are no problem if u dont feed corn. The most adamant and unflexing rule i have is u dont shoot knotheads. Each year i watch several grow up and since i started supplement feeding i almost never see knotheads disappear. From the first day they come out in the plot with their momma as spotted fawns, they come out every day with or without her. I have one doe that comes out in the same spot everyday. She has had late born fawns for the last 4 yrs. They dont even show up till first of nov. Everday when i get to my stand they are already there, sometimes they see me and run, sometimes not. Regardless, they're back out within a little while. Results at Thisselwaite 17knotheads,7spikes, and ONE 9pt.? And ur gonna sit there a grown man and everything and tell me thats OKAY?

I DONT COMMENT MUCH ON HERE, BUT I DO READ ALOT OF WHAT ALL THE SPORTSMAN IN THIS GREAT STATE HAVE TO SAY. I HUNT ONLY WMA'S AND MOSTLY BOW HUNT NOWADAYS. AND IVE BEEN HUNTING WMA'S FOR 18 YEARS NOW. 4 YEARS WITH A BOW. WHEN I STARTED HUNTING TENSAS IT WAS WITH A RIFLE AND WE DIDNT SEE MUCH DEER. BUT AS SOON AS I STARTED BOW HUNTING (AND THIS GOES FOR ALL WMA'S THAT I HUNT) I STARTED SEEING ALOT MORE DEER AND QUIALTY DEER ALSO. IN TENSAS WMA WE DO ALOT OF WORK TO GET TO WHERE WE HUNT. WALK WITH A BOAT, CROSS A CREEK AND WALK MORE. JUST TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE MOST PEOPLE DONT GO. THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE IS THERE OR REALLY NICE DEER IN TENSAS, YOU JUST HAVE TO GET OFF THE BEATEN PATH TO SEE REALLY NICE DEER, MY HUNTING BUDDY AND I SEE ATLEAST 5 NICE BUCKS EACH ON THE WEEKENDS WE HUNT THERE. WE DONT SHOOT KNOTHEADS AND EACH TAKE A DOE. I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE THINK THE RESTRICTIONS SHOULD BE THIS AND SHOULD BE THAT, BUT YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE. MY POINT IS ENJOY THIS STATE AND EVERYTHING IT HAS TO OFFER. I KNOW THIS POST DIDNT CHANGE ANYTHING BUT GOD BLESS AND GODS SPEED TIL NEXT SEASON!!!!!!!!

everytime theres is a disagreement on this site about a report you can bet on it that hunt r will be in the middle of it everytime. give it a break man. grow up

...I don't care what kind'a head they have...if it don't go in the pot I don't fiddle or play God w'da swamp chain from jump'n scorpions to black/yellow spiders and big mean purple snakes !!!...(they have been known to keep the girly and lacy drawers newbees out)...overkill of anything is why most of our swamps are barren tdy !!!...just hope some depts. can balance their budget before opening a season on songbirds ???...cheers

P/S ...'Look'ee,Look'ee what I shot Daddy !!!...Well,just throw it in a ditch,Tiger !!!...and let Daddy 'teach' 'ya some more pointers'...???

You can check the harvest results for any wma or nwr i La. and u will find that 60% of bucks killed are knotheads, 25% 11/2 yr. old spikes, and the other 15% are 31/2+. Dr. Moreland, Dr. Kroll, David Morris or any other biologist will tell u it takes 50 to 75 acres of forest land to support one deer, thats the model DMAP goes by. Also on any public land they try to kill from 30-50% of the deer. Anyway u measure it that means a pop. of about 1,500 deer, on 72,000 acres. Using the % of mature bucks leaves less than 200. Tensas has several inholdings and is surrounded by box stands and piles of feed. All of these people have 90 days of rifle season, not just 6 like the tnwr. Add to that the fact that tnwr is for bears ad ducks, not deer, the managemet aint gonna change.' But the management dont hunt and arent concerned about deer,' this is what i told the bowhunters that were shooting 15 does each year 15yrs. ago. I told them ur gonna shoot yourself out of a good place to hunt. When Willow Point opened they were overrun with does, within 3yrs. u could see more bucks than does. All this was done with a bow and the only deer they protected were knotheads. The season harvest limit on Buckhorn wma is set by surveying the farmers in the area for crop damage. i know them, if they lose one cotton leaf they scream. Also they do not shoot does till late in the season trying to attract bucks, then shoot does last two weeks. When i asked one he also said this would prolly mean he would kill 3 at once.(meaning pregnant does)Since the knotheads come out in the fields early they get wiped out. When i discovered this in 2006 i changed my feedig practices. Instead of having feed in about 10 places on my edge, i cut that to 5 towards the middle. I immediately doubled my spike recruitment and keep more of the youger bucks aroud. Antler restrictios work very little when ur only working with 15% of the population. Since it seems that some either dont want to hear the truth or keep it quiet, i will confine my comments to my own post. I am showing 3 yrs. growth on several different deer as they got older. If anyone would like to discuss current management and keep updated on live deer to help improve ur hunting, send me a email and i'll send u a free dvd with hudreds of pics.

Ok hunt r... Like alot of other people on here, I am tired of the BS!!!! Facts??? Can you copy and paste a link, or tell me where I can go to see where these biologists say that it takes 50-100 acres of forest to support 1 deer???
I hunt on a 1600 acre lease... 50/1600=32 75/1600=21... So under the conditions you speak of our property should have 16 does and 8 bucks... This is a grand total of 24 deer with a 1:2 buck to doe ratio.... I call BS!!!! We killed over 30 deer this year, not counting what the poachers killed (i know we get poached on)... And I guarantee you, I have pictures to prove that there are at least 30 bucks stil walking these woods as we speak... So I guess you will tell me that we are overbalanced?? Then why did every deer we killed have an abundance of fat on the hindquarters and inside the body cavity??? If these biologists really do support what you say, then I strongly disagree!!! I'm sure you have an answer, but I really dont care to hear it... And by the way, we are DMAP, and they have never told us that we have too many deer!!!

Bucks Only, if u dont care about my answer, why should i? Because i answer questions, not just ask. Can i what? heck no, i can barely go to my favorites. I can tell u this, ask ur DMAP leader, ours told me that. David Morris is a well known writer and deer manager. He just wrote an article quantifieng how much land. A deer eats about 5lds. of food a day. Timberland, cutover, and farm land can only grow x amount of food. This has been researched many times. However, this is land no supplemental feeding, obviously the more feed the more deer. I have about 1per5 acres, but i feed heavily year round. Dr. Kroll manages 50,000 acres in east texas. For the last 20 yrs. they have averaged one 12' spread 6pt. on each 400 acres. Each property in DMAP is managed according to data gathered from nearest wma. Bottomland hardwood is 1-25, piney woods 1-50, mature forest with thick palmetto and marsh land even worse. The % of harvest is a very well known model followed by every state. Man why u think i got out of DMAP? They never set foot on my property, just gave a tag per 25 acres. I'm not knocking dmap, i think they should give liberal dates and bags and let each manage his own and thats what they do. I've talked to many biologists and they say the same thing, kill more does, never improve ur land to carry more deer. I dont know why ur so upset with me, i didnt cause this, i just found it out on my own by reading, thousands of pics last 4 yrs. and sitting at the check in station on many wma's and checking what comes in. Dr. Kroll and David Morris write for many publications. D. Morris just wrote his on land area online at naw mag.

...I heard a rumor a while back that someone got fired from a college for say'n the truth...cheers ???

I know I'm a little late getting in on this conversation, but after hunting Tensas religiously since 2006, I can tell you that with the exception of a few areas that border private farmland, there aren't many deer on the Refuge. Just last season, I put in between 25-30 days in my climber and saw three, yes that's (3) deer while actually hunting and saw less that 20 total from Sept scouting sessions through the end of January, most of which were before or after daylight, on the side of the road.

I took nice bucks from Tensas in 2008 and 2009 and noticed a serious decline in overall deer sign from 2006 until now. Also, I can tell you that deer DO NOT like bears! I have a bear on video and about an hour after he left, I had a yearling walk up to the bear's trail and nearly broke it's neck trying to get out of the area!! Although I do agree with several posts that bear, in general, don't pose much of a real threat to a healthy deer of any age, you can't deny that a predator is still a predator, and any game animal with God's natural born instincts will try to avoid it.